Join our guest host, Christina Palma, and host April Fruchey as they navigate the contentious topic of deconstruction in modern Christianity. Unveiling the nuances between mere reflection and an outright rejection of faith in Christ, they urge listeners to approach the term "deconstruction" with caution. They examine how personal grievances can influence one's spiritual growth, the dangers of adopting a self-centric religious authority, and the vital distinction between constructive reform and the potential to drift from the Word altogether.
We address the inherent risks in consuming deconstructionist content, highlighting the need to remain alert in our spiritual lives and to ensure that our faith withstands the pressures of skepticism and societal change.
Join our guest host, Christina Palma, and host April Fruchey as they navigate the contentious topic of deconstruction in modern Christianity. Unveiling the nuances between mere reflection and an outright rejection of faith in Christ, they urge listeners to approach the term "deconstruction" with caution. They examine how personal grievances can influence one's spiritual growth, the dangers of adopting a self-centric religious authority, and the vital distinction between constructive reform and the potential to drift from the Word altogether.
We address the inherent risks in consuming deconstructionist content, highlighting the need to remain alert in our spiritual lives and to ensure that our faith withstands the pressures of skepticism and societal change.
Hello and welcome to Simpliadify's podcast. Our goal is to encourage women as we navigate the messiness of life through biblical studies, personal stories and practical tips that bolster our walk with Jesus daily. Thank you for joining us in our episode today. Hello and welcome back. We are episode two in our new series on popular cultural issues in Christianity. Today we are going to be talking about the deconstruction movement and I have a guest co-host today. It is my sister. Her name is Christina Palma. Hello, she agreed to just fill in this week for SB and I'm excited because this is stuff that we've talked about, you know, amongst ourselves as sisters, many times before, and we have a little bit of personal history in a couple areas when it comes to deconstructing people. We know people. These issues that we're going to bring up, we have addressed in our life personally. So, yeah, we're going to jump right in Deconstruction. What is it?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess it depends on who you're talking to, right? I feel like first of all, it's become a very trendy word and sometimes people might say it not knowing exactly. You know what it means to a person deconstructing, or what it means just to average Joe. So I think there's definitely two definitions of it. People, when they first hear it, just think, oh, they're kind of rummaging through their faith, they're figuring out what they believe, maybe taking out what they don't like, and then kind of figuring out what the Bible says or what Jesus says about things and kind of establishing their own faith. But I think to an actual person who's really deconstructing, it's a little bit different. What would you think?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah, yeah, definitely, if you like, look on the internet. If you do hashtag deconstructing and follow any of the people who are true deconstructors, you realize that these people want nothing to do with Christianity. They reject the historical Christian truth and faith altogether. And if they, if you were to tell them that you're actually just searching the scriptures for answers, they would laugh at your face because that's what they would say. You're not true? Deconstructing men.
Speaker 2:I mean, like anything can be a little bit of a cult, you know, in of itself in some regard, you know it's a social contingent, if you will, that's just growing amongst Christianity. However, it can kind of suck in those people who maybe think they're deconstructing, but really they're just kind of learning what Christianity is and maybe having to filter out some of the things that have been taught. They don't want to walk away from God, but they're kind of maybe a better word to be reconstruct their Christianity.
Speaker 1:Right or reform? I mean think about the Reformation. What were the main leaders of the Reformation? What were they doing.
Speaker 1:They were going to the Bible to see what was biblically accurate and there is nothing wrong with that, and you know that's a good thing, right. But to say that you're deconstructing it means something very different. So we just want to make that absolutely clear. Like, if you are in that position of not sure about what you believe or why you believe, I would caution against using that word deconstruct, caution against listening to anyone who calls themselves a deconstructionist. It's kind of like a poison really.
Speaker 1:It will suck you in and it really becomes a continual criticism of anything that has to do with religion, and the idea is that they believe that anything that goes against a personal belief is toxic. You cannot call me a sinner. That is. You're toxic if you call me a sinner, right. It's oppressive Right. The Bible says for all have sinned. So obviously we know that that is completely unbiblical, but that's the thought process behind a lot of the deconstructionists. Whatever offends me is toxic, okay, and saying that I am wrong in what I feel and what I think, that's abusive.
Speaker 1:So, you had an example of the house.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, I mean. Unfortunately, I feel like there's just more and more people around you who are going through deconstruction or say they are anyhow, which, let's be honest, deconstruction is just a fancy word for saying I'm falling away from the Lord, I'm becoming a prodigal, like I'm rejecting, and that's nothing new. That's been happening ever since Christ came right. People are walking away from the faith and the devil has just dressed it up in a pretty package and tried to insert it into the church. I think that's been a new thing these inserted into the church, but when Christians or quote, unquote, christians, I don't know try to make it sound softer.
Speaker 2:I've heard explained like this think of deconstructing as like a house or an apartment and it's full of all this furniture and it's cluttered and there's stuff you don't need and stuff that you know is not essential and you're taking all of it out and then you're only putting back in what you need and that sounds you're like oh, I can understand that.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of things maybe that we've been taught in the church that don't line with biblical principles. They've just been traditions, or maybe there are some things that have been taught wrongly. I think we can all know that, but, you know, making it sound like, oh, it's this little thing that we're just going to kind of do. And then what are you doing? By inserting all the things that you want, you've completely removed the authority of the scripture and God and you put yourself there. And that's where you know you're saying if it goes against me and what I want in my house, then that's offensive to me. If somebody's telling me that that's oppressive and this is wrong for you, because in my world everyone has to agree with me, and what if you become your own pope of your own religion, of one Exactly?
Speaker 1:Exactly, and it's funny you're saying like people try to dress it up or make it more palatable, I guess. Whatever, however you want to phrase that, I think one of the ways that they do that is trying to make it seem like an intellectual journey. Right, like you're using logic, you're using reasoning when really it's solely based in emotion.
Speaker 1:Yes, If you go to the root of it. It is how do I think? Not how do I think, but how do I feel about these things that are being told to me or have been told to me, and therefore, based on how it makes me feel, I can reject it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of people who are deconstructing started because of a trauma in their life or a harm done or church hurt or something happening that well, whether legitimate or not, and a lot of them have very sad stories. I will say that, like, I empathize and understand, but more times than not they're they've hit like a crossroad where they've been hurt, they've had something happen and their feelings now, which may have been hurt, legitimately, so or wrongly, you know the church has mistreated them, but then now their whole worldview is now being filtered through their feelings. But they wrap it up because I've listened to these books, these podcasts, these podcasts. They make it like, oh, this is so much more intellectual. These Christians who believe things and faith are just so dumb. They don't actually know science.
Speaker 2:They don't, and it's really the complete opposite of reality in that that whole movement is rooted very deeply in feelings and people feel better about it because they think that, oh well, this is so much more, this is so much more, you know, acceptable in the secular world and it makes sense in on paper. They may think, oh well, I can't believe the Bible because X, y and Z, there's all these different things to contradict, and blah, blah, blah. But again they're trying to maybe I'm trying to think of the right word make themselves feel better in the back of their mind, right?
Speaker 1:Right there's squelching any sort of conscience and once you kind of cross that line of I will no longer listen to anything that tells me I have done wrong or I am wrong or I'm thinking wrong, Once you kind of cross that line, you can just see the downward spiral in all of the things and there is no longer any reasoning with those individuals really.
Speaker 1:So again, just reinforcing that. It's really not an intellectual thing, right? I mean, we know that relativism is prevalent all around us, and so much of our world is just steeped in relativism.
Speaker 2:Absolute truth is gone right, yes, right. It's my truth. We see that everywhere socially, in the church.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we see it in the church we see it I mean just especially in this movement. This is just the very core of it. Is that so obviously, when we use the term deconstruction and we talk about this part of it, we're going to find people that we know that have done this, that are going through this. Can you speak a little to that? Do you have experience and what do you think that?
Speaker 2:Unfortunately, I think it is just becoming more and more common because I think it's like you said earlier, it's become more socially palatable, especially in the Christian movement, where people are like, oh, I'm deconstructing around this and in all honesty, it's a little weird to watch somebody go through it, especially somebody you're close to. We have people in our lives. We've more and more people who I would have never believed that this person is like, yeah, I'm pretty much walking away from God. This is, had I not heard it from their own mouth. Because I think a lot of times we think, oh, that person's deconstructing. Well, were they really saved? We hear that Maybe they didn't have a true conversion, maybe it was just a religion and they did all this stuff because their parents did.
Speaker 2:And we have multiple cases in our life where it's like, no, I, even to this day, I do not doubt that there's salvation. The Bible says by your food, ye shall know them. And there are years and decades and decades of this person loved Jesus, this person followed Jesus and this person's life was changed by Jesus until one day, whatever it was, something somebody said or said in circumstances, whatever it was, something shook their face. And then I think a lot of times when somebody goes through something like that and maybe they're not 100% honest with the people around them or what they're going through, they then start seeing the Christians around them as you're not helping me in my time of need. And then there starts the roots in planting and it's going.
Speaker 2:The seed of this is maybe not true and we've seen that in our lives. And it's hard because in some of these cases these people know more of the Bible than I do. Like what am I going to say to them? That's going to be like, no, but the Bible, this like. So it's a very difficult path to navigate.
Speaker 2:Each case is different, I believe, because to your point earlier, like, are they deconstructing or are they asking questions? You know I'm talking about the actual deconstructing here, rejecting, rejecting book Christianity, and saying no, I don't, I do not believe in the Bible, I do not believe it's authority, I'm not going to take it face value and all these things. It's a hard path to walk through and see people go through that and I think obviously number one thing is praying for people and you know, always keeping a relationship, you know there and being there for that person is as much as they'll let you. I mean, there have been people in our life where you continually reach out and reach out and try and try and then it just that thing that brought you together no longer exists.
Speaker 1:So it's hard in that, like when we kind of see people do this, usually there is some sort of an outside source that is drawing them right. They're not like just coming up with this on their own. Yes, they're listening to people. They're, you know, listening to these deconstructionists and podcasts or on YouTube or something like there. There is some sort of an outside.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:It's very important I don't care how strong a Christian you are to be careful in what you are allowing yourself to listen to. Like you know, even when I was looking stuff up on this deconstruction stuff like I didn't want to go down and listen to all of the deconstruction Like I looked and I saw that it was there right, but I wasn't going to sit there and listen to their side of whatever they think reality is I wasn't going to do that. I was going to say I don't think that it's good to live in an echo chamber and that you never you know you never research other sides of opinions. I don't think that it's good to live in an echo chamber and that you never you know you never research other sides of opinions or stories or truth. Like you don't ever like hear anything but what you believe and what you think.
Speaker 1:When people think and believe like you, I do not think that that is a very good way to go about things. However, you still have to use discernment and you still have to guard your heart and guard your what goes in and out and make sure that these things don't take a root in your heart to cause your question. And when you're constantly, even if you have, like you said, it gives a strong space. If that's all you're doing is listening to podcast after podcast.
Speaker 2:You're reading book after book in all the ways you should deconstruct To then what happens when you're listening to a podcast after a podcast, you're reading it in all the ways you should deconstruct to then what happens is this, you start deconstructing and that, and that leads to deconversion. You are going down. It's deconstruction is just a vehicle that's getting you to your destination of rejecting God, whether that's your finding yourself agnostic or atheist. I don't think I've ever heard of anybody deconstructing to another religion.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:It's always nope. None of this stuff applies to me, right? If you're constantly filling yourself with that, of course that's what you're going to become. Why is it any different with our minds as it is, with putting our body right? Garbage in, garbage out If you eat garbage, you're going to feel like garbage. If you put garbage in your mind, that is what is in your mind. That's why the Bible says renewing your mind through his word constantly, and that's a huge part in making sure you're understanding where you are in your quote unquote journey. If you just have questions, you're trying to find answers, to seek the scriptures, right, the answers. Find your relationship with the Lord, but recognize that deconstructing is you're just taking this path, one way or another, to unbelief, you know.
Speaker 1:And if I think of building a mind with that.
Speaker 2:That's where you're going to end up.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think of when Paul was talking to Timothy and second Timothy said Demos has forsaken forsaken loving this present world you know, just like what we had mentioned before, this is not a new thing. And if somebody who ministered with Paul Paul the Apostle where we got pretty much the majority of the New Testament if somebody could walk away from the faith who ministered one on one with Paul, you know who are we to think that we couldn't possibly walk?
Speaker 2:away and that our minds are, you know, beyond that, because our faith is so strong. That's like a great, great point, yeah.
Speaker 1:So then let's talk a little bit about we've covered the people who are actually truly deconstructing, right. So let's talk about somebody who maybe they okay, so we're very familiar with this Okay, they grew up in Christianity, they experienced kind of maybe extremes in Christianity and they're they're searching for what is biblical and what isn't biblical. They know that certain flavors of Christianity aren't necessarily right, you know, because you can have doctrinary sound churches who have kind of cult like yeah, cult like practices. You know you can have true believers practicing their faith in a wrong way and it does, it affects other people and we've seen this and have we see it even still today these people who have, like, this crisis of faith, right.
Speaker 1:So they're like I don't know. I see all this hypocrisy, I see all of this, you know, unbiblical practicing and I just I don't know. I can't say that I want to go to church necessarily, but I can't say that I reject Christianity wholesale. So let's talk a little bit about that, like why can one person go through a crisis of faith and another person go through a very similar crisis of faith and one person comes out stronger in their faith? And the other person comes out lacking faith altogether or very little faith.
Speaker 2:I mean, I think a lot of it has to do with going back to was there a true conversion? You know, if you have, you're talking about the same, two different people kind of going through the same experience. You know how? How was their faith to start with? You know, did they have a real relationship with the Lord? And I mean we have to also give recognition to the fact that you know if people's personalities are different. We would talk about that and with our family, like how, you know, we're raised all in the same way same roots, same parents and all of us have very similar experiences. But some of us just react differently to things. In what we perceive one way, another, you know, family might perceive a different way. So I think there's there's a lot to be said about that and recognizing that.
Speaker 2:But it starts with the heart, like if someone has a true desire to find truth, then God will reveal himself to them. That is what scripture says. He says he will reveal himself in search our hearts out and if your heart is actually seeking truth and you want to know. Oh God, there's a lot of confusion around me. There's oh, I've been hurt, I have been wronged, people have been terrible. The church has been wronged me. I see a lot of horrible things, but I still think you are good. Please show yourself to me and you are actively pursuing God. He will reveal himself, and again that goes to your heart. So why does one person walk away? One grow stronger? I think their heart is in a different place. I think some people deconstructions, will never say I'm deconstructing so I can live a life of sin and not worry about it. But at the root, of it.
Speaker 2:They don't want to say that out loud, but they want to live the life how they want and not feel the guilt of it. So they fluff it up and be like oh, these are all the reasons why I have left God and left the church and Christianity. And we can all come up with a thousand reasons why. Right, we've got the church right, because there is a lot of wrong stuff going on there.
Speaker 1:But that the heart posture and those two people is very different Absolutely, and I always think of the parable of the sower and the seed right. That's right there, given to us. There are people who are going to receive the word the seed and it's going to grow up for a little bit and then it's going to fall away and the roots aren't going to take root very deep and they'll be good. They'll bring forth a little bit of fruit and then they're going to be gone away.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and then you have those that really are rooted and you know no scripture, and they're deep in the ground and, yes, the winds come and the storms come and those things might topple back and forth here and there, but they're still going to stay in that ground because they have a firm foundation. They've been, they have deep roots, you know they've been watered and they know where they belong.
Speaker 1:Essentially Right for sure, and it's important to say here too, that with our social media, in the world that we live in, these hurts that we experience, they can become a platform and they can be draw attention and therefore, because they draw attention, we can use these hurts to our advantage, so to say, and we can draw a following of people who have been hurt likewise, and we can use our hurt in a very, very, very bad way, because it not only continually hurts you yourself to do that, because you're putting your, your hurt always before you, but it can also hurt other Christians who are struggling and you can use your negativity to allow other people to fall away as well.
Speaker 1:And maybe you're not even like. You're not the people who are really deconstructing. You love Jesus and you want to follow Jesus, but you're just still publicizing this hurt, Right? You're saying this was all the bad things that happened. You better ask yourself the question how is this helping someone else? A lot of people do this and they say well, I just want to help other people who are going through the same thing. How?
Speaker 2:yeah, and when you say hurt, we're talking about church hurt.
Speaker 2:So I think you know, to give a maybe a little bit more direction of you know what we're talking about. You grew up in a Christian church, maybe a streaming legalistic church, right, and there's a lot of you know people, I think, nowadays who are leaving legalism and they're like, oh my gosh, my eyes have been open, this is crazy. But they still love Jesus and they're trying to search things out and they haven't walked away from the Lord. And now the pendulum has swung the other way, Right, and instead of being like super strict, like legalistic, Now it's like I have figured out what the Bible actually says and this is what it says. And I'm going to impart my wisdom and all the Bible that I know onto the world and show you how fundamentalism and legalism and X, Y and Z are all wrong and how this is what's right, because I have been enlightened. And now, like you said you have, they keep on exploiting these traumas and these, these essentially sticky statements, and hit pieces on you know things that they're pulling from their background, which there is legitimate, ridiculous, crazy stuff that is out there, that has been said and people believe, and but building these you know audiences to then throw all that stuff on the internet and I say, okay, if we are following the God of the Bible and praise the Lord, you have been enlightened and you recognize that there was a lot of stuff that needs to be thrown out. Okay, the our main goal as Christians is the Great Commission. Right.
Speaker 2:The Bible says goes preach the gospel to all people. So your social media platforms, where all you're doing is hounding on other Christians Fundamentalist or legalistic, right, super liberal, not whatever side you're on it how are you bringing people to Jesus? How is that? Any person who just happens upon your feet and you're harping on this, that and the other thing, that is a major turn off. If I was an unsafe person and I came across that and like, what are all these people talking about? This is crazy, Right. And if it is all about you know, I want to let people know, like, but at the end of the day, it's got telling you to go let people know that their cultish things or maybe they're extremely liberal things aren't biblical. Or is he just like hey, make sure people know I'm the way to choose some life now I'm gonna buy me.
Speaker 1:Right, it's all about like time and place, right. The internet's not the time or the place. You're not. You're not going to make the situation any better by just rehashing these, these things that were done to you, or by proclaiming what you think is truth about the situation or not. Again, it kind of just. It goes full circle, like if you want to go back to the whole idea of relativism, like you say that this is truth, right, and maybe it could be biblically true, maybe, maybe it's not. But bashing someone that you think is not right doesn't help anyone.
Speaker 2:It's doing the exact same thing that you're accusing everybody else of. Just you're on the other side of it. Now, right, because we've all been, you know there where you're, like you said we have, we have a little bit of background where we were in a situation where things were more, you know, opinion based or personal conviction preached as biblical truth. Right, well, that's right.
Speaker 1:Right, I mean just even in like when we use it's. It's all about like, this, defining the words, even still like. Even when you use the term legalistic, well, that could mean something different to everybody. Right, you know and and so when we're, when we're talking about these things in Christianity, it's very hard because we could be using the same word but thinking of definitions completely different in our minds. So you know, yes, we found ourselves in situations where, like you were saying, personal conviction preached as biblical truth.
Speaker 2:Right, right for everybody across the board to finish my point like you're. So if you're on the other side of that, we've all. We can all go back to times and places in our lives when we've heard, you know, the one person, like all these Christians who think that this is what the Bible means, they're so backslidden and they're that, and now here we are on the other side, are like all these crazy Christians who think this is what the Bible means and you're like it's all the same thing you're just a coin.
Speaker 1:I can tell you how many times I've heard from both sides the same, the same thing, and I'm, like you know, again I have. I think it's important to hear other people's sides of things. I do not think it's a good idea to sit in an echo chamber of just yeah, oh my gosh, yeah, and there's way too much of that on both sides.
Speaker 1:They're really and there really is, and I do believe social media feeds that for sure. We need to be careful when we're talking about a very immature believer who is trying to figure out what is the truth. We need to be careful that we are going back to the basic fundamentals of our Christian faith. What do we believe doctrinally about Jesus Christ? What do we believe doctrinally about the word of God? If you, if they are struggling with all of these other things, all of these issues of standard and all of these issues of practices in the church, you need to go back to the foundational truths of Christianity. Who is God, god's eternal being? Who is Jesus Christ? Jesus Christ is God the Trinity, that you're going back to the doctrine of the faith and you are saying do I believe this? Do I believe the word of God is absolute truth? And if you come to a point where you're saying, yes, I do believe this, then all of those other things you can deal with later as you grow. You need to take the basic baby steps and this is where I think a lot of this issue has become.
Speaker 1:Such an issue in our world today is that there's such a lack of discipleship, and with second generation Christians. So, yeah, you know, first generation Christians, I think of people like mom and dad's age, their sixth season discipleship was very strong, right. Then their children are raised in the church and they, I think if it was kind of like, well, we think that this is going to happen by osmosis, like the discipleship you know, and as mothers we are to be in, fathers, we are to be discipling our children Absolutely. It's supposed to start in the home but it doesn't always Right. We have the second generation Christians and their basic doctrinal knowledge is so shallow that it is so easy for them to fall away. So if you're talking with someone who is, you know, I was raised in church, but all of these things, they just don't make sense in every. I just go back to the basics. Do you believe? Do you believe that the word of God is the absolute authority?
Speaker 2:That right there, anybody who we know in our life who is deconstructing? That is the one thing that I have gotten clear answers from no Right, and that's the scary thing to hear as a Christian. And then, for here, somebody that you love say that because you're like, okay, well, how do I prove to you now that it is the word of God Right, and, like you were saying, the discipleship and how shallow and how little some of us really know like? Can you and I sit with somebody tomorrow and say this is how I know the word of God is true and real and, through evidence and fulfilled prophecy and all these things, how we can go through and have a look at my son, but, man, I would need a week to prepare for that.
Speaker 2:I can't do that tomorrow. We don't have that, at least not all of us, definitely not the way that we should. And that is why I think so many people around us, to your point, their, their roots are just taken right out of that ground, because that soil was not planted, because we do not really know how to defend what we believe, because we just it's in many ways. Our parents walked away from religion and then they chose Jesus, but we have just followed the religion of our parents and don't have that. We believe it, but we can't be apologists about it and that should.
Speaker 1:Yeah, in that it's not wrong to ask questions. Yes, you know we need to ask questions. We need to ask good questions. We need to ask good questions of why we believe what we believe. But also, if someone is falling away, ask them some good questions. Ask them what led them to that.
Speaker 1:You know, what is it that's that's hurting them or what is it that's making them question? You know, we need to have that, that conversation, in a very compassionate way, and we need to in in in our of ourselves. We need to make sure that we can answer those questions. And if we can't answer them right then and there we can say let me, let me study this, let me pray about this, let me ask some people, let me, and I'll get back to you and we can see and we can have this conversation. Because I'd love to have this conversation, because I want to make sure that I know why I believe what I believe as well. Like you know, we need to. We need to have those conversations and not be afraid of the questions.
Speaker 1:If someone is questioning, sometimes they're questioning just out of arrogance. But if someone is questioning, it's not well, arrogance and ignorance, like they're arrogant and they think well, I already know why I believe. So I'm just going to question you to see if what you say you know, like just from a proud standpoint. You know they're not really looking for answers, they're just asking a question and ignorance. Obviously they're coming from a point of ignorance too.
Speaker 2:but and I think the church as a whole I think they've gotten better has been afraid of questions. I think it's been like frowned upon, like if someone would say, well, I'm struggling with believing that the Bible is true and the answer that you, you know, tape over everything as well. You know, you just have to have faith and you know what. Yes, there are plenty of times that, yes, you do just have to have faith. At the end of the day, it takes faith to believe there's not a God and it takes faith to believe there is a God. Both of them have faith. But I think the last couple of decades that answer has been a don't question because it makes people afraid and uncomfortable. So you just have that faith when really there is a lot of things that we can give an answer to and the Bible says that we should be able to and we don't want to just slap here. Here's faith. That's the answer to all things that are kind of hard. And if you're struggling with something, just pray and ask God for more faith and read the Bible, because faith comes by hearing, hearing by the word of God, and sometimes that's a lazy way out because we don't want to study and we don't want to have hard conversations. You want to talk about having hard conversations.
Speaker 2:You know my 10 year old and this is like it breaks your heart and it makes you like, wow, I really need to study my Bible more, because she's 10 years old and it's only going to get worse, you know, for the number of generations. She's asking me why did God harden Pharaoh's heart? I didn't ask that. Why did I thought of that question? To have 20, something Like that's a hard question to wrestle with. How do you answer that question? She's asking me. You know, if God told us not to be respecters of persons, why did God choose the Jews over everybody else in the Bible? And then why is he put blinders on their eyes now and why are they dying in Israel right now? That is not fair. And here she is, 10 years old, sobbing, and you're like those are really hard questions from a 10 year old.
Speaker 1:But I just want to say this is a kudos to you, though, because she actually knows those verses to be able to have those thoughts, to be able to reason those things, and she's doing it in the confines of your home, asking you those questions. So this is discipleship and this is, you know, absolutely great. Yeah, they're hard questions, but aren't you glad she's coming to you with these questions now, Instead of like she is in college, where her you know professor could give her a whole spew of why she thinks?
Speaker 2:it is, you know, yeah, and it's. It makes you because I was literally like OK, I don't want to just say I don't know why God hardened Pharaoh's heart, but we just have faith that that was God's plan Like I want to be like OK, you know, I need to really study this and give her a little bit more of an answer. And it pushes you, and I think that's where, like you said, back to point. Questions are a good thing for the person asking them and for the person hearing them, because it forces both of you to think outside the box, go to God. It strengthens your faith and I think, like I said, the church as a whole has been afraid of that, and so I think some of the whole movement has been in reaction to we're not supposed to have questions. Well, I thought, I thought you know if God is real to reveal stuff to you and I have answers to everything. And then, you know, one thing leads to another and OK, this is true If we can't even ask a question.
Speaker 1:Just to kind of wrap this all up. We could talk about this for a long time, but we won't bore you anymore. From where I sit, I want to make sure that if I am confronted with somebody who's saying I'm a deconstructionist, or if someone in my family like, say, in 10 years my daughter's like well, I'm deconstructing, or I don't believe in Jesus anymore, I want her to know first that, well, I still love her and Jesus still loves her, and I want to still have a relationship with her, to be able to speak some sort of truth into her life, as long as she would, let me Right, heavens, that happens. I pray that it does not every day, but if that were to happen, right. So if your friend comes to you and is like you know, I'm on this deconstruction path, whatever, how do we interact? What do we say? What do we do? And we've covered this. We've said you know, we want to have that relationship.
Speaker 1:But sometimes really, it's OK to just take a step back and say you know, if you don't want to hear anything, if you don't have the questions, you don't want to hear the answers, I still love you, but I can't, because sometimes it's like this. It's so heavy and weighty, yeah, becomes Oppressive. You know it's sad, it's, it's troublesome. So to take a step back is not a problem. But yeah, I did not cut people out in anger. To react anger, yeah, it's not a good idea, because you're just really solidifying in their minds that and it's justifying their actions even more. Like, see they're. They're just angry, right Cuz I, because I didn't agree with them. They're just angry so because they reacted that way. That just tells me even more that they were just toxic, so right.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and a lot of times when people are going through something, whether it's faith-related or not. But I was sort of talking about this. This is something our mom was very good about and I know she still does it she would always pray God put somebody or a set of circumstances in their life that they would draw them to you, and oftentimes the person that's gonna make a breakthrough in somebody's close to life is not going to be you. Right, it'll be a set of circumstances or somebody else that God puts in their life because, whether you'd like to admit it or not, you know we have history, people were close and there are things that we both have said and done that maybe have been hurtful or they. We haven't lived out our Christianity Maybe the way we should, and it's hard To be that change in somebody's life when they know you so well. In often time it can come from somebody else. So I just encourage you know People walking through this, either with a feminine member or a friend like number one cover them in prayer all the time, but pray that God put somebody or set of circumstances in their life that shakes them and brings them back to Jesus, and that they would, that God would open their eyes to see him, because we know God reveals himself.
Speaker 2:That that's what scripture tells us. Right, but they have to be looking for it, to see it. You know, and if they're on this path towards trying to prove that he doesn't exist, you're kind of working against God, and so obviously we always say like, oh well, of course We'll just pray for them, but prayer is like the first thing.
Speaker 1:No, something's going wrong.
Speaker 2:Anyways, like let's pray for them. Like that is a tool that we all do not use to, you know it's best ability?
Speaker 1:Oh, absolutely for sure. You know, we hear these terms so much in Christianity. We'll just, you know, read the Bible, just pray, you know, and sometimes we're like, okay, but how, like in the moment, how, what am I gonna pray? What do I pray? How do I pray for that person? I just you mentioning that, like is is a way to pray for that person, like it's giving a little bit more guidance, not just pray, right, it's a Pray that God will bring someone or a set of circumstances or whatever that Will will be able to Minister to them in a way that maybe I cannot right and yeah, just pray that God would draw them to him, that they would not harden their heart so much that the Holy Spirit cannot still minister to them and speak to them in their life, you know.
Speaker 1:So those are some, some more ways you can pray, like using the word of God to pray for people and and Just going to the scripture.
Speaker 1:For if you're you know, like we were saying, it's a very heavy subject. It can be very depressing like to go to the scripture to find comfort in. You know these situations for our self, when our heart is hurting because somebody is leaving, because of that relationship is broken. Just Reminding ourselves of the scriptures that well I know everybody loves to throw out. All things work together for too good. No, there are.
Speaker 1:There are promises in the scriptures that we can hold on to we know that God is good, no matter what Right, and we can go and we can look at who God is again and we can trust in who God is again and know that his plan For us, for that individual. He loves that person more than we ever could you know, and we have.
Speaker 2:Their story Is not over like you don't know. That's me where they are today and, you know, until, until they're under their lives, I mean, god can be working on them. And well, it may seem over in our mind, because in that time, like we we don't know, like that's what we just can never Stop praying and being encouraging to them and all that, like that's not the end right.
Speaker 1:Anyhow, we hope that this was maybe, maybe informative. If you've never heard of the terms, or maybe you have heard of them but you're kind of like, well, what does this mean and why are so many people Saying this? Now, maybe we have provided a little bit of clarity for the deconstruction movement. Hopefully, if you know somebody we've been Encouraging with just the idea of what we're supposed to do if we know somebody's going through this, and we just hope that it's been Encouragement as you walk in your walk with the Lord. Thank you for listening and thank you, christina, for joining us.
Speaker 2:Oh, my pleasure.
Speaker 1:All right, we'll see you next time. We are honored that you chose simply edified to be a part of your day, if this episode was a blessing to you. But you consider subscribing to our podcast as well as writing a review or giving us a rating? This would be such a help to our ministry. We would love for other people to find us and this is one of the ways that they can Thank you. I think you just answered our call. You just have to go ahead and ask. Ask at cybernet.