Network Marketing and Multilevel Marketing opportunities have made their way through the Christian wife circles for years. Estie and April share their experiences with you in this episode and ask some questions about these style companies. They discuss the negatives of seeing individuals as mere opportunities for profit and the importance of personal accountability. As Christians, our interactions, be they online or face-to-face, must reflect our deeply held values. This conversation serves as a mirror, asking us to look closely at the reflection of our personal branding and to assess whether it truly aligns with who we are and who we aspire to be in Christ.
Network Marketing and Multilevel Marketing opportunities have made their way through the Christian wife circles for years. Estie and April share their experiences with you in this episode and ask some questions about these style companies. They discuss the negatives of seeing individuals as mere opportunities for profit and the importance of personal accountability. As Christians, our interactions, be they online or face-to-face, must reflect our deeply held values. This conversation serves as a mirror, asking us to look closely at the reflection of our personal branding and to assess whether it truly aligns with who we are and who we aspire to be in Christ.
Hello and welcome to Simply Edifies podcast. Our goal is to encourage women as we navigate the messiness of life through biblical studies, personal stories and practical tips that bolster our walk with Jesus daily.
Speaker 2:Thank you for joining us in our episode today a receiver of a DM from somebody that maybe we knew like 10, 15 years ago, saying hey, how are you the dreaded hey girl message.
Speaker 2:You want to buy my product that I'm selling. I don't know, maybe I'm just the lucky one who has had that happen quite a few times, but if you have also experienced this, we're going to talk a little bit about these companies, and there's many of them, so we're not going to go through and like single out a certain company or anything like that. We're just going to talk in very general terms. Again, this is the series.
Speaker 2:We've been talking about just kind of modern day things in Christianity that Essie and I have talked about before, and just kind of like the nuances of them from a Christian perspective that maybe not everybody thinks about off the top of their head.
Speaker 2:And like we both have been a part of some of these companies, we both have bought things from companies that are like this, the MLM companies. First off, what we want to say is that obviously we know that people's livelihood and a way it's a great way for some moms to like make some extra money on the side or whatever like these businesses can be a great financial help, and I know several people who have really profited in a financial way from being part of these businesses, right, so we're not saying that they are evil. We're not saying that they're like wrong to be a part of. We're just, in this episode, going to take a little bit of time not a very long time and just ask some questions about them. Really, and maybe we don't even have all the answers, we're just going to ask some questions think it's.
Speaker 3:We have to look at everything through our christian perspective, and this is something that affects a lot of christians because it is very, you know, it's just something that's very common inside of churches is to have a lot of different businesses or online businesses or mlms represented, and there are some good things about them and there are some iffy things, and then there are some downright not edifying things about them as well. So, I think, covering all of them and if you are part of one or, um, something like that, please don't tune us out, because we really aren't like here to demonize it. We just want to talk about and I have been very deeply entrenched in them before, and so I am just kind of going to share some of my perspective on it and some of the good, some of the bad, um, but I have plenty of positives, like from my experience, and then I have negatives too, and I think the negatives are things that are worth talking about.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and some of these things that we're going to talk about could also be applied just to like Instagram and marketing as a whole.
Speaker 3:Like yeah, the whole like Insta business model where you have to be your own product. Basically, I think that this death, this conversation, definitely would fit that category as well.
Speaker 2:Yeah, for sure, because you know there's an element of sales that, as a Christian, as a believer, you have to just be guarded in how you're presenting your product right, and this is what we'll get into first off. Right, so each of these companies has a product and they, of course, have competition in that field, so they want to present their product as the best product. Of course, um, one thing to be leery of is a company who says this is the best and this has all of the answers. And if you don't have, like this is completely life-changing for every, like these bold, dramatic statements right, that are just obviously they're there to get your attention, they're there for the marketing purpose and and all these things, but you can't really say that my product is going to fix every problem. You know what I mean. Like you can't. There's nothing in this world that can fix everything.
Speaker 3:The bolder, the claim, and the more outrageous the claim, I think, the more caution needs to be taken. And because we, as Christians, we have to operate with honesty and integrity. And your product might be amazing, but someone might just it doesn't work for them. And you have, if you are so believing of that, that like it is truth, that it is the best and it will, it is life-changing and it will work. When someone is like, oh, this isn't working, or I'm just not sure, or I haven't seen the results, or whatever the tendency is to like, fight back right.
Speaker 2:So maybe you didn't use it long enough, or maybe you need a different this, or maybe you need like to try to convince the person that it wasn't necessarily the product, but maybe it was the person and you end up walking into some just great areas, I believe, of like integrity when you are again walking into such bold flames of a life-changing this.
Speaker 3:Now there are, there are businesses and we're like we're not going to pick out names where I have definitely seen people have really great results, um, with their products, and so, like I personally use products from a couple of different companies. So, again, like not demonizing it, but just be cautious, like if you especially considering joining one, if they're making very, very bold claims, just know that it's going to be your responsibility to back those claims up and you don't want to be stuck in a position of feeling like you have to compromise your honesty or your integrity in the sake of a business along with that, I think, is also the idea of some of these companies.
Speaker 2:Really, they thrive because of a element of fear in their selling. You know there's so many toxins, there's so many, you know this, or there's so many that, and and you know your health is is basically you're going to die if you don't like do this cleanse or you don't do this. You know, have this cleaning product or that cleaning product. Like it's a very fear centric model for for selling. Obviously we've talked about this many times as a believer, if that's your model for selling is to be focused on the negative and fear driven part of it. Now, obviously, yes, is it true that there are toxins in the world and we can do better and all of that, absolutely, 100% sure, we're not saying that. There's not truth to that. We're saying that if that's your motive, or if that's your motive for buying the product or your motive for selling the product, is that fear like again, it goes back to the integrity part of it.
Speaker 2:Is that how christ sells? I mean, I know this is a very awkward way to say it. It's probably not. Hopefully it's not like sacrilegious, but christ did not sell salvation for himself out of fear. Did he talk about fear and judgment? Absolutely. Was it true? Is there truth to it? Absolutely 100. But when we, when that's the the main focus, even even when we are sharing the gospel, if it's just fear you, I would question if that person genuinely came to christ.
Speaker 3:I I once wrote for simply edify. I don't remember. I don't remember exactly what the topic was, but I remember using the um picture of if someone had to to really like lie to sell you or like scare you to to buy from them, would you really believe in the integrity of their product? Because if they're having to like push and push and push and push to get you to purchase something, wouldn't you feel like like a good product speaks for itself and and that's why like yeah, when people I believe, like I said, there are plenty of products that are cleaner and better and you know, when you start removing chemicals from your life, like dangerous chemicals from your life, you can see positive impacts and so, like the testimony of people who have had changes is is effective and there's nothing wrong with that. But I have said this is kind of a funny story. So I used to work for a, a company that sold healthy, healthy living stuff and, um, I really liked the products. I have nothing against any of the products. They were great.
Speaker 3:Um, but one of the things that I would do at my presentations was I would bring up the story of Mike Rose's Dirty Jobs, where he works at a plant where they take animal carcasses and just all sorts of absolutely disgusting things and kind of render down the fat and then that fat is what they use to make a lot of cosmetics. And it's just like the most disgusting one of his most it was for the show Dirty Jobs and it was just one of the most disgusting episodes. And so I would like you know, tell that story at all my and it was very effective because I mean it's, it really is disgusting. But that was like you know, there was just that like I was instilling kind of like fear in people.
Speaker 3:Like you put that on your lips. It could have been like some pig that died on the farm and they just like chucked in the wagon and you know, and I mean it's fun, it's funny now, like I don't. I don't really look at that as like a bad thing, but it was just that whole mindset of like I'm, I'm kind of I was kind of scaring people into buying my product. I still do think about it sometimes when I put on like makeup and stuff like, oh what, what animal is this If I'm not using the good stuff?
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean this. Obviously, there's all different types of sales tactics, but just something that we've talked about before is the idea of are you manipulating in fear to make your product? You have to be so grossed in the sales and in the marketing aspect of it that it's so easy to forget that who you are dealing with as individuals are people. They're not just numbers, and this goes for Instagram, this goes for like, if you're an influencer or whatever, like, your followers are people. The people who you are influencing are people and they have a soul.
Speaker 2:And when you're looking at them as numbers or sales or followers or whatever and this is a personal thing that you have to take accountability for how am I viewing these people? How am I viewing my friends on Facebook? Are they as potential sales targets or are they still friends? Are they still acquaintances? Are they still people? And that is one of the biggest things for myself personally when it comes to these style marketing things, is that immediately, like I could not have talked to somebody for 10 years and, just like we said at the beginning, we get like a message in our DMs or something hey, you want to buy my product, you know, and it doesn't. I mean, it doesn't always start out that way, like maybe there's some chit chat to begin with, but essentially that's what it is. You are a potential money-making avenue for me, yeah.
Speaker 3:And you are like you are at the beginning. If you start with any company, they're going to have you go down through all your list of acquaintances, all your list of you know, people that could potentially buy from you, and kind of make list and then just start, you know, reaching out to these people and that's a sales tactic. That has been a sales tactic forever. I, I remember I used to sell furniture and I read a book, um, that my boss had. It was about. It was written by like a car salesman and some of his tactics and stuff and it was older, probably I don't remember how old, but it was, you know, from the 1900s and, um, it was this. I mean, the sales sales have not changed over the years, they just haven't. It's always been, you know, the same, the same kind of aggressive go, you know, and you have to just constantly be contacting people.
Speaker 3:And, to be honest, this is probably my biggest beef with mlms is, and why I walked away from it is because, not because of the products, not because the people I worked with, nothing like that. It was because I met someone new one day and it just crushed my heart when I realized I did not care about that person as a person. I saw them as a sales opportunity. I started having a conversation with someone I had to slide in my business so that they could, you know, I could start that conversation and then I could get their contact information and then I could whatever and some people don't, don't fall in that trap, like I don't think that every person that sells has that mindset. I really don't, but I know. For me personally, it had taken over how I helped my life and how and I am a very relational person I meet people, I make connections quickly, I can grow friendship. Like I I just saw something that was a very big part of my life just kind of like turned on its end and it wasn't for the better, and I wasn't trying to like witness to them or share the gospel or invite them to church or find out about their spiritual needs. I was how can I go in for the world? Yes, and it was very upsetting, honestly, and I realized that there were friendships that I had messed up, because where I could have taken an opportunity to build the friendship, I was just focused on building my business. Again, I know there are so many people that have built massive businesses and still been able to balance their relationships well, but I did not, and I think that that's a big, big danger that you can and honestly, we were talking about this a little bit beforehand this isn't just about like businesses.
Speaker 3:This could also be like the whole idea that you have to have this image, whether maybe you do a business through Instagram or you have some kind of social media presence, and you have to maintain an image that's not necessarily authentic, because you are the product and you want people to think of you in a certain way. Or maybe I remember part of my company was makeup and I felt like I couldn't go out in public without like, looking a certain way because I was representing the company. Yeah, and I'm like, but ultimately I'm representing Christ, like that's where my focus needs to be and it had just shifted so drastically. And yeah, and I just if. If what you're doing it doesn't matter if it's a business, it doesn't matter if it's your role in your church, like it does not matter if what you are doing is causing you to be fake or unauthentic, or you recognize that your priorities are flip-flop because of how your image is or what your goals are and those goals aren't lining up with what God's goals are. You've got to take a step back, and that doesn't necessarily mean change everything or quit or whatever. It could just mean re-evaluate and change your sales tactics, reevaluate and change your, your talk, your sales tactics or whatever. But having all of this at our fingertips is something you don't escape from it.
Speaker 3:It used to be like you know you'd see the Mary Kay ladies. Oh, we're supposed to. You know, that's a very common thing. I can bring up Mary Kay because we all talk about Mary Kay. Those ladies have been around a while and we all know what I say. I'm going to say the Mary Kay ladies. And you know they. You would see them and they'd be all dressed up for their presentations or whatever, but it would be a specific time. They would have their presentations and they'd be all dressed up and dolled up and like super cool, but then they went about their lives at other times. But now everything is. It's just like a constant online social media, like you are always on a stage, always when that's just not what god has called us to, does not?
Speaker 2:it should not be our top and most in first priority it is difficult because there are people like we said, that this, the income has helped them a lot and it has been like a blessing, and you know all of those things. And once again, we're not here to belief in the product. Like that there is nothing wrong. Like you can't say that there's possibly anything wrong, you can't question it. That should be a warning sign. Um, you know the just when there's so much of the charismatic, like leadership and things that draw you in and people like, again, some of this is personality and some of this is like just marketing in general. Like take the style company away, it's just marketing in general. But when the following is so strong because of the leadership being so charismatic and so whatever, you know what I mean Like is it really the product or is it the marketing tactics? Like what is actually there, you know, so just question it, ask God to show you if you're part of one, if you know this is obviously what God has for you. Like it's not, you don't have to be. You know like, oh, my goodness, I'm doing something horribly wrong, but at the same time, it is something to consider. You should it just like any job. If, if a boss came up to me and and asked me to do something, thing that I felt was morally questionable. I would take a minute and I would just say, hey, is this really what is going on, or is it something different? Like, do I have like all of the pieces? Like you just have to do that. It's called it being reasonable. It's like using common sense and using the bible and the scriptures and asking the questions to to figure it out. You know, and and just remember, like the big part of it is just remembering that people, even outside of the marketing people, need jesus more than anything. They. They need Jesus more than your product.
Speaker 2:And if you, one of the one of the real core issues that I kind of have to is that when you join one of these things, like you have to become an expert, so to speak, on the product. Like you have to learn all of the terminology for selling it. You have to learn, um, you know what's in the product. You have to learn about the, the sales strategy and all of that. If you're going to do well, you're going to spend time learning this stuff, but how much time and energy do we spend on our ability to share the gospel with other people. And yes, I realize that I'm kind of relating sharing the gospel with selling something and that's not necessarily a great thing, like a representation that's equal. But at the same time, there's so many women who I've met who, oh, I just don't know that I would be able to share the gospel with somebody. Well, you could share a product with me right.
Speaker 3:One thing that I remember hearing a lot, and it is true. They said you know you already represent something, so, like, if you buy a shampoo that you love, you probably have told somebody about it and so why not, you know, make money off of that. And that was true. That is true, um, but ultimately, are we quick to talk about jesus and the change that he's made in our life? And this doesn't have to be this, doesn't have to have anything to do with whether you should sell something or not. This is just our Christianity in general. Are we quick to share the change that God has made us as quickly as we are to tell someone about a good sale that we got, or a good deal we got on the dress we're wearing, or you know what kind of makeup we have, or the supplement that work is working for us.
Speaker 3:I'm really bad about that. Like, if I start working using a supplement that works, I'm like everyone should try it. Everybody come find out about this and so, um, that enthusiasm, and it is it. They work up your enthusiasm. They really do, and it's so you. So you go out there and you make sales, and there's nothing wrong with that, like the reason that I originally joined a network marketing is what it was called business um was because I was like I you know it was a stay at home mom and I wanted to have some income and I was like you know, I was reading through Proverbs and I'm like the Proverbs 31 woman. She did it all. She, she was industrious and she took care of her family. And there's nothing wrong with me doing this and I can maybe help out a little bit and get some products that I really love for cheaper and you know all the things and I did that stuff and it was good and I explained the reason I left.
Speaker 3:But but I even like when you have those models where you are bringing in people underneath of you and training them and everything, I remember working with a girl that I'm friends with who's younger and also like a sister in the faith, and looking back like I could have spent so much of that energy and time that I spent on her trying to kind of mold her into this like business model, partner kind of thing, was really wasted time where I could have been working while helping her with like both of us with our spiritual walk and like discipleship, and I wouldn't say that it like I didn't go into it with bad intentions and nothing terrible came out of it. But I can just kind of look back with with more clarity and just see missed opportunities to build real relationships because I was worried about selling a product and so if you need to sell that product, just be just be honest about that, be like listen, this is, this is about sales, like I'm not just, because sometimes you have to kind of go in and the guys of friendship that's why we get the hey girl, hey girly, what have you been up to? Let me tell you what have you been up to. Let me tell you what I have been up to. Like you, you start under this like guys of I care about us, like we're friends right, like let's or let's be better friends, and then you slide in with the, the sales pitch or the team join my team or whatever it is, and there's just a danger and all I'm saying is to just be cautious and just make sure which just we say this so often just make sure your priorities are right and that you're looking at these people as either lost and needing Christ more than anything, or a sister in Christ or brother in Christ who you can be building relationship, true relationships with. And, as a word of caution and this has not happened to me, but I've seen it happen before If you feel like you cannot step away from a company without repercussions of some kind emotionally as far as, like you will be cut off from friendships that you've made or relationships that you've built, that is problematic.
Speaker 3:And you, there are people that have have really lost all of their friends, all of their money, um, and their and their, their integrity, to be perfectly honest because they have gone so all in in a company that just was using them and so just spend a lot of time researching and spend time asking questions, and if you are not allowed to ask questions, that's a huge red flag. And, on a practical note, work for a company where you don't have to carry inventory, because you will invest a lot of money and sometimes these companies go under and you are stuck with stuff and it is very dangerous and people have been ruined like that. So that's just my practical word of caution and I'm not, again, not trying to scare anyone. I'm saying do your research, pray about it. God might be like, hey, this is the answer to your financial problem. I believe that has happened many times for many people, but sometimes people just go into it eyes wide open.
Speaker 2:All that to say is that, when it comes to these types of businesses and even Instagram, like we were saying in the marketing there aspect of it, seeing people as souls is primary and it doesn't matter if this is, even if you're not in one of those companies, even if you're at work.
Speaker 2:You know your co-worker, who that you've been with for 20 years working in the same job. Maybe tomorrow you go to work and you see them as a soul where you haven't seen them that way before, your boss, whatever, it doesn't matter. Like it's so easy to just lose that sight of eternal value because this is our physical job and, yes, in in some workplaces you know, obviously you're not going to be able to open up the Bible during your work, that you know you're being paid to work and we understand that, but it's it's more about who you are as an individual representing. Just like what Estee had already said. We've covered that. Like we are representing somebody and we talk about the things that we like, and we talk about the things that we like and we talk about the things that have made an impact on our health and on our well-being.
Speaker 2:If jesus christ has made an impact in your life, that should be the first thing that you're sharing. So I know this is kind of an unusual topic but again, these are just conversations that Estee and I have had. We've talked about this many times because, like we said, we've both been in them. We've both been, we've bought products from them. We've been, you know, supportive of friends who have been in them and in selling their stuff, like we, we know the companies, um, and we don't have a vendetta against them or anything like that. We don't think that they're wrong. It's just some, some things that we've noticed. All that to say hope you have a blessed day.
Speaker 3:We will move on to some kind of um lighter, more fun topic one of these days.
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